Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login
Why is it that there's so many artworks that use '2P' Japan when it comes to fanart regarding World War Two? It really bugs me, because it's like people can't accept that Japan's 1P did those terrible things he did during the war. But in 'Axis Powers Hetalia', the main storyline is based around World War Two and we do see regular Japan and he is a part of the Axis Powers. That is the Japan Himaruya intended for the series, not 2P Japan, the original. 2P isn't even a canon thing, it's an AU and I don't get why people have to use the 2P whenever the country does something they're morally against.

Or what, whenever a country plans to do something bad, they have to bring in some kind of 'evil twin' to do it? What the actual fuck? Just because you don't agree with what a country has done, that doesn't mean the country has to be a 2P to have done it.

Yes, we all have gotten upset over bad things people in the country have done, but you've got to accept that there's bound to be a reason behind it. You don't have to agree with them, but their perspective is their own, and I firmly believe Japan had his reasons for doing what he did in WW2 - and I'm sick of people throwing in 2P Japan to do all the bad shit, just so that their regular Japan can remain some pure Gary Stu.

Also if 2P Japan is gonna be used for 'darker Hetalia', then why isn't everyone else in the war suddenly a 2P? Why is it only a select few characters? I mean, all who fought in WW2 were enemies to one another and they had their reasons and their perspectives for doing what they did. Why is it that some characters get demonized in wars and not others? Just because you believe one side is more the good guy victim doesn't mean they're entirely all that pure?

Wars are tough and full of conflict. Everyone had their hardships and their losses, and many came out of the war feeling absolutely terrible about the things they've done. They had their reasons for doing what they did. To survive, to protect their country, to assert their power, etc. Can we just accept that no characters are entirely pure, and stop making stupid excuses with 2P inserts when they aren't actually canon? Yes, the original characters are capable of both good and bad, so I'm sick of some characters being replaced with 2Ps so that they can avoid making the original 1P or whatever look bad.

Sorry, seeing some artworks made me remember how much this type of thing annoys me. 8T I hope I made sense with my rant though?
Add a Comment:
 
:iconhoneybeegirl94:
HoneyBeeGirl94 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2014
I also hate how the Hetalia characters have to 'go 2P' to be badass or become angry. Haven't fans ever heard of the tropes called 'Beware of the nice ones'?

Also you can also rant to me about your pet peeves on your favorite Hetalia characters' portray in the fandom in the fandom in my journal:  honeybeegirl94.deviantart.com/…
Ocs are welcomed, too.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2014
Hmm, I would but I'm too lazy atm. //raughs

If the mood strikes me I might, but I tend to prefer ranting on my own journals, cuz it's like my 'personal space' for all watchers to see?? idek--

but I agree. Characters can be assholes without 2P being used to 'excuse' their behaviour or whatever. u__u
Reply
:iconhoneybeegirl94:
Okay. I love listening to people's rants and opinions.

Indeed. Italy flipped shit and fought back against Turkey. No 2P Italy popping up and telling him to that. I thought that dealing with those unoriginal 'Snapped! Canada or whatever' and HetaOni fanfics hogging up the horror section of the Hetalia fanfic sections were enough.

I also hate how Taiwan and Liechtenstein are portrayed as super innocent and naive girls during wars. We all know Taiwan's history with Japan wasn't rainbow and butterflies, but if we count Taiwan being a Indigenous Taiwanese native, then she's not so innocent either. Most of the tribes were known for their head hunting, attacking people whom end up on their land and rebelling. They also suffered from severe punishment. 
I'm not sure about the bad things that Liechtenstein people had done, but the small country has suffered so many hardships in it's history. There's no reason for Liechtenstein to be a native little girl throughout the whole experience. Not to mention that Himaruya said that Liechtenstein has suffered many hardships before Switzerland took her in. Did I forgot to mention that Switzerland had invaded Liechtenstein a few times in the past, before it became neutral, yet Liechtenstein remains nice to the Swiss people. 

Though, I can see 2P Romano being apart of the Mafia, since our Romano despises them greatly. Which is a reason why I love Romano. 
Reply
:iconx-i-l2048:
X-I-L2048 Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, I dislike it when people do that, too, TBPH. I mean, people can do what they want, I don't care, but ALL the 2Ps are are alternate colorings of the canon characters. That's it. If people want to make them their own characters, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that the 1Ps are good and the 2Ps are evil. That makes it all way too cut and dry for my taste. Why can't people let the nations be more complex characters than just "this one's good, this one's bad"?
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 27, 2014
It's just a problem when characters are portrayed as black and white. And it's offensive the way most people have done this too. Where suddenly World Wars are somehow split into Good vs Evil with no real idea of what actually went on on both sides? Why are some portrayed 2P and others not? It's far too biased. //sighs
Reply
:iconx-i-l2048:
X-I-L2048 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Indeed. :/
Reply
:iconspirit-okami:
Spirit-Okami Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
:iconthisplz:
Also I heard that 2P Russia is suppose to represent the Soviet Union from what I heard but can't regular 1P Russia represent it(?) I mean there's no need for 2P to be Soviet Union. Also I think fandom portrays 2P Germany as a Nazi(?) I seriously don't know if thats true but a lot of fanart portrays it. 
I really dislike when 2P's are involved in war or bad events such as wars in Hetalia. Hima didn't say 2Ps were supposed to be evil. They are just alternate colors kinda like characters in video games. Ok Imma pick a alternate color of Mario *le gasp* That automatically makes him evil. 
Oh god on tumblr there is 3P and 4P like wth?? .__.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2014
Man, the 2P Russia soviet thing is so not canon just NO??? And the Soviet Union was a collective anyways. 2Ps just piss me off more than they make me happy, sigh. u__u

don't you know that when you dye your hair you become 2P and evil, spirit, gaaaasp

somebody told me today that people have gone all the way to 10P, I am so done w/ fandom sometimes--
Reply
:iconrandomyami:
RandomYami Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014
Thank you so much for this, because sometimes it's okay for me that 2p japan is evil and Japan is a pure and nice (as long as they don't go overboard with japan being so innocent and 2p's are so evil as shit)  And when I read this I was just "WHAT WAS I DOING WITH MY LIFE".
Thank you so much for this and I hope this can teach other people from doing  bad portrayals of 2p's.

BTW if you think 2p's are annoying then  stay away from the 3p, 4p and 5p  because that is another peeve in the fandom -_-
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014
lmao, I've heard of 3/4/5P and it makes even less sense. Fandom these days, omfg-- u__u

anyway, you're welcome. I don't like it when Japan is too pure and nice though, it's kinda Gary Stu and I feel like the 2Ps being all evil psycho makes the originals seem too perfect. I hate it when characters are too perfect. >>;
Reply
:iconnedcan:
NedCan Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hima himself never even used the term 2p, he called them 'alternate colourings'. The whole 2p/2nd Player concept is entirely fanon. This reminds me of when Hima posted some chibi sketches of France and England in uniforms and called the file '2psometing' and everyone was freaking out because they thought they're the canon 2p desings of them... I also don't get it when people make 2p!versons for characters we know hardly anything about, like India? 

But really, I think most of the time the 2ps are just an excuse for fans to keep their precious favourite 1p character all pure and whitewashed.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014
Yeah, that's true, I remember that. But ugh, what bugs me is that almost all the fanon 2P designs are so unrealistic for the country they're supposedly a 2P of. They just seem like random characters who just happen to slightly resemble canon APH characters. :/

And I agree. I'm sick of people purifying characters so much, I've seen people do it to try and make their ships seem valid even though it's not all peachy or somethin'. Heavy siiiiiggggggghhh.
Reply
:iconnedcan:
NedCan Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
From what I understand the 2Ps are supposed the opposites of the 1Ps, so for example 2P!Canada is basically a douchebag and 2P!Belarus a is a really sweet girl. I remember for a while 3Ps also popped up but luckily that didn't become a thing. I just don't understand why do we need so many alternate interprations of a character that are often so different from the originals that you might as well call them an OC. Like, aren't the canon characters not good/interesting enough? It's not like Canada can't be mean at all or Belarus doesn't have her kinder moments... I just feel like it's a waste of time, putting all their lesser known characteristics into an alternate character instead of discovering the complexity of canon ones. Why can't people see grey, why does it always have to be black or white?
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014
because grey is too complicated for idiots to understand!!!11111

ew i remember the 3P/4P thing popping up and it repulsed me, it seemed even more pointless than the 2Ps .________.
Reply
:iconkyuzoaoi:
kyuzoaoi Featured By Owner Edited Jul 15, 2014  Student Artist
I think this is because of a misunderstanding of Himaruya's post about 2P.

They were intended to be alternate clothing as though they are from an evil organization. They are to be treated as though as alternate clothes in fighting games like Tekken. There is a good reason there are called 'alternate colors'. There is no explicit word that they are evil or like the Star Trek equivalent of the 'mirror universe' (though a parallel universe America with a goatee or with the Kamina sunglasses would be nice).

BTW, what would be your 2P version of Maricela would look like? If I forgot to go to your gallery again.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2014
No, I don't recall Hima ever stating anything about 'evil organisations'. 8/ But people do misunderstand 2Ps and made them 2Shit???//slapped

I do have a 2P!Philippines named Josefa Corazon de los Santos, her reference can be found in either my gallery or through my OC Masterpost. uvu I don't plan on ever using her though, I has a strong disliking for 2Ps.
Reply
:iconkatyminecraft:
KatyMinecraft Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2014  Student General Artist
One of the reason why I stay away from the 2p fandom.

You have rant about it very well. :iconclapplz:

And as for the people who made Japan 2p as a "World War II" version of Japan,

:iconfacepalmplz:
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2014
it's stupid, because it seems to be mostly Japan who gets this treatment. If WW2 Japan is the 2P, what about every other participant in the World Wars? And if that's the case, how come Hima has never used 2P!Japan in /any/ of his strips based around those wars? .___________.
Reply
:iconmegumimaruidesu:
megumimaruidesu Featured By Owner Edited Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Um, I think its because people don't understand what 2P means. I mean, 2P is originally an 'Another Color' or in other words, a 'recolor' of characters that are supposed to be the ENEMY for their own opposites ONLY, not for the others (as far as I know)
Ugh, I hate it when people make stupid excuses like that, its like they praise their favorite characters (more likely the oh-so-innocent 1Ps) way too much :I
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
I think many people have misinterpreted it. I don't think Hima actually plans to show the 2Ps in any comics though, but I don't really see the point anyway. They're not in the main Hetalia canon unless proven otherwise?? But currently there's no proof so yeah. :U

But yeah, it screams character bias. I love my APH characters to be imperfect anyways.
Reply
:iconmegumimaruidesu:
megumimaruidesu Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, maybe it was an original (?) AU or something? XD
Lol yeah, a way too perfect characters are boring for me 8T
Oh also, I rEALLY hate it when people designed 2P!England as a total psycho and insane :iconfacepalmplz: 2Ps and insanity are two different things ppl, jeez! :icondoublefacepalmplz:
(Ah, but I do like some of the fanon 2P designs tho, ahahaa //rollsaway)
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
nah, I see people slotting 2Ps into historical stuff, not with the intention of an AU but actually portraying canon events with some kinda evil twin 2P substitute or w/e.

oh god I'll just say that I really dislike most 2P designs, and leave it at that. And the insanity thing is one of the reasons why.
Reply
:iconthe-alternate-rocker:
the-Alternate-Rocker Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I 100% agree! I have read too many fan fiction about this dilemma. Also, Himaruya said that he drew the 2Ps as if they ran an evil organization. That's it. Why can't fans follow what Hima-papa says?!
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
TBH I see 2P as AU anyways, like the Nyotalias too. 8T I don't like people only slotting them in when it suits them. If 2P Japan's suddenly appearing, where's 2P!America? and so on

//sigh
Reply
:iconthepinklily101:
ThePinkLily101 Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree so much, especially on your point with the whole Pirihon thing. I'm Filipino and honestly, I feel very uncomfortable with all those fanfics and fanart pinning all the Japanese war crimes on some sort of alternate "evil twin" (especially since the creators of those things are Filipino anyway, ugh). It looks to me that they just don't want to be called out on the fact that their oc and Japan didn't have a good relationship and so they disregard historical accuracy and the characters' personalities. I mean you can ship the pairing if you want, but at least admit it's inaccurate and offensive, lol (in regards to those 2P!Imperial Japan and Philipppines pairings during WW2, since present relations are better and are a whole different story. I don't even mean to be a "hater" or anything. The fact that they have to invent a whole new character that goes against canon to somehow excuse real-life atrocities and make the pairing even seem plausible speaks for itself, tbh).
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Yeah really, if you have to come up with a whole new level of bullshit to make your ship look valid, then Houston, we have a problem. And it's even weirder because they'll blame Japan's war crimes on an evil twin, but what about the awful things that America and Spain have done to Philippines too? Why is it that one character gets a bullshit excuse and others don't? It screams bad bias. All three colonisers have done bad things but I have yet to see someone who portrays all three colonisers in an accurate way. Almost everyone I've seen has demonised one coloniser, yet given another coloniser a free pass and desufied it. All three did good, all three did bad. It has got to be acknowledged, all three of them.

but this is exactly why I avoid coloniser/colony type pairings. Even if the colony forgives their coloniser, they've still got to acknowledge what the coloniser is capable of, and I think that has to affect the way they feel about the other, even if they treat them nice in the modern day. I hate the idea of 'oh I forgive this coloniser because IT WAS THEIR EVIL 2P SIDE, not really them~~~~!!'
Reply
:iconthepinklily101:
ThePinkLily101 Featured By Owner Edited Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Yup, that stuff is pretty rampant in the APH Philippines side of the fandom (can't really talk for the other characters in SEA or the rest of the Hetalia fandom). To be fair, Japan does get the most out of this "evil twin" treatment (so at least there's some acknowledgement of what the Japanese government's done during WW2, albeit it's usually not enough) while most fans simply portray Spain as some sort of overprotective, concerned father and I don't even wanna delve into the whole "savior complex" a lot of Philippines ocs put for America. I mean...it's better now, I guess. I don't want to be too judgemental because I don't even have an oc and making one and portraying it accurately is hard work, I'm sure. But hey, we're dealing with real countries here so I think it's only fair. 

I dislike colonizer/colony pairings as well and I'd think they only really work for AUs in a whole different timeline or where history isn't even taken into account and the countries are just people. Yup, I  agree that a lot of colonizer/colony pairings don't really bring up the more problematic parts of the relationship. Or even if they do, the person shipping them only does so for the sake of saying that the characters "love each other now so it's different~". I mean, it doesn't really seem fair if the portrayal is so imbalanced that the problematic parts only get mentioned every now and then while all the good parts of the relationship keep getting emphasized (then again, this is shipping so I can't really complain because obviously no one wants their pairing to look bad).
Reply
:iconpoi-rozen:
poi-rozen Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
and thus why I left and started to not like 2ptalia for this, it seriously gets me on my nerves when people bring up 2ps just because the country did some shit in the past, countries have there goods and bads no countries is pure, none are. They had there moments where they screw up and I bet a few would  go 'yeah...I screw up-.' in a way.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
The evil twin portrayal is so stupid anyway, omg. It's such a closeminded view of how complex a person can be.
Reply
:iconpoi-rozen:
poi-rozen Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
exactly, I don't like evil twins and prefer them as just the original versions. It does bring up a lot of things about the nation that makes you question and really, maybe they had reasons for why they did it since some nations were pretty damn power hungry at the time. Nothing is really black and white when you look at it.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
IT'S ALL SHADES OF GREY

more than 50 tho it's not all porn :UUU

Besides, it's interesting to think about what motivates the characters about certain decisions.
Reply
:iconmarchrrr:
marchrrr Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Lmao i don't even like 2p's that much anyway-
but yeah i agree B^| b
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
neither do I, this is why I hardly ever use 2P designs in general. I made a Philippines 2P because almost every other one didn't look the slightest bit Filipino, but otherwise I can't be assed with them. 8T
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
THIS I'm agreed!

There isn't no 2p! japan during World War II. It's just JAPAN following his boss's orders. Like the other countries, he wasn't so innocent at all. Hell, my own country wasn't so pure neither (Bombing two certain Japanese cities in the end...) 

Yeah, I'd get so darn annoyed with the "2p! Japan did it!" crap. 
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Exactly! I've seen this portrayal a lot with Pirihon tbh, like people can't accept that Japan was indeed awful to Philippines and feel a need to blame the bad things on the 2P? It's one of the things that turned me off the ship, because I think people need to accept that all ships have their imperfections, and yes, some imperfections are truly more awful than others. That's the reality. 8T

But I also see this portrayal with a lot of Japan fans in general, who don't want to accept the bad along with the good. Siiiigh.
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Ah, yes. PiriHon. Japan treated his colonies and occupied territories like shit. The reader inserts as well. Like 2p! Japan x whatever! reader >__> That's why I stopped reading APH imperial! japan fanfics.  Because of "His eyes turned red"...and I'd be like NOPE NOPE NOPE! FAIL. Japan wouldn't have time for the reader as he's in the middle of a war with other countries. And it pisses me off when some fanfics, they'd be bashing the crap of Taiwan to make their OC look better. 
Reply
:iconhoneybeegirl94:
HoneyBeeGirl94 Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2014
You know. If the Hetalia characters were all actually older people (like in their early 20s and late 30s) and didn't have the 'bishie' looks. Then I'm pretty sure that the fans would have no problem portraying them accurately without the 'evil twin' to make someone like, Japan, sound pure.

Don't get me started on Reader Insert fanfics that involve pretty much anything with the Allies and Axis. Most of it is about Reader being a 'special snowflake' to her group, but reality the Reader is a brainless whiny bimbo that stupidly allows herself to get captured by the Allies/Axis and needs the Axis/Allies to act as her hero's to save her pathetic ass. 
Don't use Italy as a comeback on me. If you're a fan of TV Tropes, then look up 'Pity the kidnapper'.
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2014
THIS. hint: on my next hetalia fanfic, there will no 2P Japan with the normal Japan...:iconburnplz:
Reply
:iconhoneybeegirl94:
HoneyBeeGirl94 Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2014
Which part on what I've said? 

I'd love to see a 'Pity the kidnapper' fanfic. XD
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
lmao not every evil person had red eyes anyway. It's such a ridiculous concept, but unfortunately, the red eye colour change already happens in too many shows, sigh. But it's just not that realistic?? Also I'm sick of people saying it's entirely their boss' fault, solely so they can make the country character seem like the good guy everytime. :/ Not all bosses were great people, but even they had their reasons and I'm certain the nations have the capacity to see where their own people are coming from with their beliefs. 8T
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Yes! The "blame the bosses" crap. If a personified country goes along with their boss's ideas, they're guilty as well. Ah, yes. Joseph Stalin (Russia's boss at the time) is a a good example of not the so great boss. 
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Heck, it counts as a flaw when they may not disagree with a boss' ideas but goes along with it regardless. It's good to have flaws in characters, because it makes them far more realistic. 8T
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Yep! That's why they aren't perfect. They make mistakes. 
Reply
:iconchibi-tokatoki:
Chibi-Tokatoki Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I know the feeling. It really does pisses me off how people bring in the 2ps when the country does something terrible, somehow they suddenly snap for no reason, turn into 2p and attack everyone. I hate it when people portray the characters like complete angels. I'm pretty sure  every country had their douche-baggy moment in history for a reason.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
That's exactly it. I love that no character is perfect and pure, and the whole 2P bullshit starts to come off like split personality disorder and oh my god, events are never black or white! And it's not up to us decide when a character's a good guy or a villain in general. We can agree and disagree with what characters have done, but just because we find something bad, that doesn't mean the character is bad. To them, they may have very fleshed out reasoning and morality behind what they've done. 8T
Reply
:icontunsem:
TUNSEM Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
I agree with this so much and honestly, there's a part of me that's a little annoyed with whole 2p idea.
Cause um, prior to the 2p thing, I'm pretty sure Himaruya drew Japan in a black uniform a couple of times. And now that 2p!Japan is a thing he can't be drawn in a black uniform without someone thinking he's 2p. It used to be just another alternate outfit for him.
Reply
:iconraspberry-angel:
Raspberry-Angel Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
Yes.

Historically, the Japanese generals wrote black uniforms so yeah.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
I'm glad you do! And tbh it's things like this that make me hate the 2P concept. It's why I hardly ever draw it. It's like 2Ps are meant to be the evil twins and it has no disregard whatsoever of what was actually going on at the time and the true perspectives behind what's occurred.
Reply
:icontunsem:
TUNSEM Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
I really wish the 2p concept had been used for something else. Like idk, alternate stereotypes for the characters? Or maybe just an au where the characters had different personalities? Or even better, take the 2p thing literally and just have that be their alternate colors in a fighting game au. Not the "Evil" thing that everyone loves so much.
All Himaruya said on the matter was that they "looked like they're part of the mafia". Not that they were or that they're evil.
Reply
:iconmelonstyle:
melonstyle Featured By Owner Jul 14, 2014
IDK I just didn't see the point to 2P in the first place. It just feels like a useless concept to me, personally.
Reply
Add a Comment:
 
×

:iconmelonstyle: More from melonstyle


Featured in Collections

Journals by kamillyanna


More from DeviantArt



Details

Submitted on
July 14, 2014
Link
Thumb

Stats

Views
857 (1 today)
Favourites
16 (who?)
Comments
54
×